Listen – Scottish Police Chair says reclaim the night message should be ‘drink less’
Update Note – upon further listening, the specific quote ‘drink less, wear more’ was not from the Police Fed Chair, but a caller-in (both Liz and I (Adam) were confused by this). However, the Police Fed Chair did I feel perpetuate the ‘blame the victim’ culture by responding to a conversation about why women don’t feel safe at night by saying women should drink less. Regardless of this, I apologise for the false accusation over the ‘wear more’ comment, which he distanced himself from.
Liz Rawlings, the excellent president of the Edinburgh University Students’ Association and an organiser of Edinburgh’s Reclaim the Night march was told this morning by the chair of the Scottish Police Federation that the message of Reclaim the Night should be ‘drink less, wear more‘.
You can listen to the interview here from 1:20.
Reclaim the Night was launched because of police officers telling women to stay at home after dark. Clearly, it is still needed. We should have a comment piece from Liz herself later, so look out for that.
You didnt understand either.
@Douglas McLellan
Men who rape are certainly where discussions of preventing rape should lie.
However comparing a women to a mobile phone remains incredibly offensive and inaccurate, even if in your projection of a ‘rapists eye view’.
There is no way for women to not take their bodies with them where-ever they go. There is *no* way for them to drink without their bodies. Dressing up, drinking, dancing, having fun, kissing, play and sex are all activities that all *require* their bodies to be present. To stop doing any of these activities is just plain impractical and/or utterly soul destroying. I speak from experience.
Men who rape, mostly rape women they know. It is an act of domination, violence, selfishness. The way to stop rape, is in part to stop it being possible that people think women’s bodies and sexuality can EVER be compared to a mobile phone.
Like you’ve just done.
@Naomi Mc
You are thinking in terms of the victim. I am trying to remind you that there is another thought process at work. The rapists.
If you cannot understand that then what I am trying to say wont make sense.
The rapist doesnt see the target/victim in the same way you do. The target/victim is a thing to be taken. To be owned. To be used.
Not unlike a mobile phone.
@Adam “However, he did talk about how women should drink less.”
Again, where does he says this? He talks generally about people drinking less, but doesn’t that I noticed single out women.
That guy’s comment could easily be read as comparing a young woman to a Porsche… oh dear.
That explains why there were so many people on the train from Perth.
@ Naomi Mc – I don’t think that anyone is disputing what an utterly horrific phenomenon rape is but it’s not entirely risk free being a man on a night out either. You may be at very low risk of being raped(but not zero risk – as male rape is still a thoroughly taboo subject) but if you don’t exercise judgement about where to go, when to go and how to dress you are still at considerable risk of violent assault.
During the two and a half years I lived in London of late I didn’t go out to my local area on Friday or Saturday evenings at all – not once – and it’s not even that bad a place by London standards. It’s a sad fact of life that people go out, get drunk and start fights. Knife crime in cities overwhelmingly claims male victims and violent assault likewise.
This is a little out of date (from the ONS) but I doubt the balance has changed much: “Men are more likely to be the victims of violent crime than women. Over 5 per cent of men and just under 3 per cent of women aged 16 and over in England and Wales were the victims of some sort of violence in the twelve months prior to interview in 2002/03. Men and women aged 16 to 24 are the most at risk age group. Around 15 per cent of men and 7 per cent women of this age reporting that some sort of violence had been used against them.”
Moreover the murder of Ian Baynham, a gay man kicked and beaten to death by two teenage girls and a teenage boy in Trafalgar Square in 2009 shows how in many cases violence is no longer solely perpertrated by men.
Liz Rawlings stressed than men will be welcome on the Reclaim the Night march – and I hope many go – because violence in our city centres affects us all.
Hello, yeah, sorry – we got this wrong – Liz must have got confused and tweeted it was him who said that, and when I listened I didn’t pick up that it was someone else – Gary is now editing accordingly.
However, he did talk about how women should drink less. And I still think that this is, in THIS CONTEXT, offensive. Obviously I don’t have a problem with the police, in general, saying we should all drink less. However, if – as in this case – you answer the question ‘why do women not feel safe in the streets at night’ with ‘they should drink less’, then you are blaming the victim.
So, we’ll edit the piece – sorry we got confused – but the guy is still being a dick!
@Douglas
I’m a little concerned that I need to point out the difference between the rape of a woman, which includes the often prolonged sexual assault using intimidation, violence or the threat of it against an unwilling human being and nicking a phone.
But hell, I’ll try my best. Violence against women is something that permeates society and all societies. It underlies how women are supposed to act, how they dress, how they talk to men, their sexuality and behaviour. It is this constant threat of violence that defines my physical space in the world, where I am allowed to walk, what I put on and in my body. And I am not going to accept that imposition or allow my identity to be defined by it.
Not only the violence itself, but the threat of it, impacts on many aspects of women’s lives and identities, affecting our behaviour and relationships.
That is why its different to having your phone nicked.
I can’t hear any point where the police chair promotes this specific message.
He talks about drinking responsibly and applies it to people of all ages and different kinds of attacks and assault. It’s nothing new.
Link me to the quotes which justify the title of this article if possible.
I just listened to this twice over on iPlayer and he didn’t actually say this – it was one of the douche bags who called in.
Les Gray did suggest that it was no wonder that women got raped because of the amount that they drank – but he pointedly didn’t comment on what they should wear (though I suspect he probably considers chastity belts to be a reasonable ‘crime prevention’ measure).
Depressing programme anyway. Lot of ignorant twats out there including the stupid caller who suggested that promiscuous women were sluts. What a life – no drinking or shagging. Meh.
@Naomi Mc
Of course it is your right to walk down the street as drunk as you possibly can be wearing whatever you want. I am not denying you that. Nor am I saying you should put up with behaviour that you dont like. Nor have I said that that any woman is asking to be raped.
Why is the comparison ridiculous? If a thief views a stray mobile phone as something to be taken because they want it then it what way is that different from a rapist seeing a vulnerable victim as something to be attacked?
All I am saying is that whilst there are rapists willing to target vulnerable women then surely some level self-protection is sensible thing?
I dont take precautions to avoid being raped. I take precautions to avoid being badly beaten up and I take precautions to avoid being targeted for crimes of opportunity. I wish I didn’t have to, but I do.
The actual interview starts about 1:15:00.
Oh where to begin? @Douglas
Firstly, most rapes are committed by men known to the woman, not men in trench-coats jumping out of bushes. Women and girls are brought up to expect to be sexually assaulted which in turn feeds the idea that this behaviour is acceptable. Even if you are not raped, pretty much every woman is shouted at, leered at, touched, whistled at and/or groped. And I am sick and tired of being told by people that I should just expect this and put up with it. I will not.
Rape is not in anyway analogous to stealing something and the comparison is ridiculous. What no one seems to query is that the corollary to ‘women are asking for it’ is ‘men are rapists’ i.e. they cannot stop themselves from assaulting a woman they see walking down a dark street. This may feed in to the false idea that rapists are these ‘animals’ hiding in bushes but it is very misleading. So does it also go for every man who has also grabbed me, shouted obscenities at me, followed me home? Because that is a hell of a lot of men.
And what precautions are men taking to ensure that they don’t get raped? What should they wear to ensure that they do not excite the urges of a rapist?
I want to live in a world where I can walk down the street (pissed or not) without being harassed. That is my right.
Also, most rapes are committed by men women know when women are sober.
So maybe what he meant to say was “if women want to avoid rape – stay drunk and stay away from men you know”.
Surely his message should be:
“Men, don’t rape women – if you do the police will do everything they can to ensure that you are punished”
He seems a little confused about where responsibility for rape actually lies.
I didnt say anything about clothes.
The drink part is obvious. Isnt it?
In what way does a woman’s clothes make it easier for a rapist to find a victim Douglas? What would you recommend a woman does/doesn’t wear in order to minimise risk? Or should we simply accept that we aren’t free and cover up completely to avoid violent attackers?
At what point in the programme does he say “drink less, wear more”? I couldn’t hear him say those words.
Your history is wrong:
http://www.reclaimthenight.org/why.html
Also, the police guys message is about minimising risk rather than moralising about drink/clothing fashion.
The same radio segment has the example of the guy who left is phone in a place that made it easy to steal. And it was stolen.
Just as there are thief’s out there, there are rapists out there. Surely one way, amongst many, to avoid rape is to minimise the risk of being attacked by a rapist? No woman is to blame for being raped but if we acknowledge that there are rapists out there then why make it easier for them to find victims?
Slut Parade time?